Aggressive 1 1/2 year old great Pyrenees

2 days ago my 1 1/2 year old Pyrenees got aggressive with my 5 year old.

We have had him since he was 6 weeks old and have never had a problem.

We gave him a bone and my son was shoveling and got close to his bone. He went at him and thankfully just got the end of his glove. After that I took the bone away and told him bad.

My husband tried to get my son to go back up to him to pet him and he just growled. So I went and was petting and talking to him and tried again with my son to go back up to him but as soon as he went to pet him he growled and went at his face but never made contact because we had the dog on a leash at this point. So my question is what do I do now? I haven't let him by my children since, because I'm nervous he will bite them.

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Apr 02, 2015
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serious
by: wendy

Wow. I would say that you have some serious Alpha dog problems. I don't own this breed but have been researching and understand that training early on is needed to prevent this type of behavior. I would hire a trainer to work with your son and dog.....or find a home w/out young children for your dog. This type of dominance is best prevented with early training so at this point it will take much more work.

From puppy on, you should have been training the dog to allow your child to take food in and out of the dog's mouth etc. Normal instinct can always kick in around a food-dominated dog, but I don't like the fact that he growled when the bone was gone and actually snapped and went at your child. That is dangerous when you're talking about an animal that probably weights 2-3x that of your child.

Apr 02, 2015
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Maybe not so much aggressive as misinterpreted communication.....
by: Tressie

I will let the Pyr experts weigh in on this. However, I can give you some insights for consideration. Guarding a prized possession like a bone is normal canine behaviour. Now some dogs are more possessive than others. And it would appear that trait is more strongly ingrained in certain breeds, such as many of the livestock guardian breeds, like the Pyr.

The best strategy is not to approach the dog and leave him alone to enjoy his bone. Reprimanding or punishment do not work and may make things worse, especially with sensitive Pyrs who do best with positive reinforcement methods.

Forcing the child to pet the dog is not good a good idea either. The dog will pick up on the child’s fear and anxiety and it’s never a good strategy to have a child approach a dog even under the best of circumstances. Rather the dog should be given the opportunity to do the approaching.

I am wondering as well whether you are familiar with the signs that indicate a dog is not pleased about something, nervous or fearful. You may find the information at this link helpful: https://www.aspca.org/pet-care/virtual-pet-behaviorist/dog-behavior/canine-body-language

A warning growl should never be reprimanded since that eliminates an important step - the message the dog is communicating, i.e., "Stay back – leave me alone." The growl means that something more unpleasant will follow if the warning isn't heeded. Dogs who have been punished when they growl – move straight to a bite.

Just as children need to be taught how to be well-behaved around other people, they need to be taught to be well-behaved and respectful around animals. They need to learn what kinds of games are appropriate, how to touch the dog properly, how to interpret the dog's body language and when the dog is not to be disturbed.

Importantly, young children should never, ever be left alone with any dog, no matter how reliable the dog has been before. A responsible adult needs to be on the scene to prevent any aggressive behavior by the dog and to keep the child from putting him or herself in danger.

Here is another useful link to a wonderful overview by the late Dr. Sophia Yin on how to approach dogs: http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/preventing-dog-bites-by-learning-to-greet-dogs-properly

In the interim, I encourage you to look for a behaviourist trainer who uses positive reinforcement methods to help you work with your dog. At 1 ½ your Pyr is still a juvenile, brimming with potential and is on a steep learning curve.


Apr 02, 2015
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Resource Guarding
by: Donna

First, you will need to work on resource guarding with your dog. This should have been done when he was a puppy and as he became older. Dr. Sophia Yin is a renowned vet behavourist. You can search around for resource guarding information.
http://drsophiayin.com/videos/entry/ben_guards_the_food_bowl

Your dog is now of the age that he is becoming his own dog. Never punish him for growling or he will go for the bite because no one is listening to his growl.

He is instinctly guarding his food/bone.

You need to train your child not to go near your dog when he is eating. Never tell the dog he is bad.

Don't force the child to go to the dog. The dog is obviously a little anxious at this point because he is being punished for growling.

However, it is important to work on resource guarding so that if your dog does pick up something he shouldn't have, you can take it away if need be.

I would highly recommend that you take a child and dog course on how to train your child to behave around dogs and how to work with your dog on resource guarding.

You don't want to set your dog up for failure.


Apr 02, 2015
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Resource Guarding
by: Donna

I almost forgot. There is also some great information on dogs and children on this website.

http://www.great-pyrenees-club-of-southern-ontario.com/bestdogsforchildren.html

I hope this helps.

Apr 03, 2015
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Resource Guarding
by: Donna

Thank you,Tressie. Exactly my approach, as well.

Here is a great article, as well, by Dr. Sophia Yin on the myth of dominance and alpha. When you start using this approach, a bite will happen.

http://drsophiayin.com/philosophy/dominance



Apr 03, 2015
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Alpha - NOT
by: Tressie

Unfortunately, the ‘dominance/alpha’ concept of dogs still has a firm grip on the imagination of many well-meaning individuals. No small part due to a popular reality show led by one, Cesar Milan. That view has long been discredited by canine behavioral science.

I strongly encourage Wendy to read the information on the link Donna provided. Since you have been actively researching, I will assume that you are open-minded enough to consider a different way of conceptualizing dogs. For example, we now know without a shred of doubt that dogs can read our emotional states from our facial expressions to the intonations in our voices. They are innately, highly socialized to humans and are not into dominating the human race.

On the contrary, it is humans who feel the need to dominate dogs and therefore, create the behavioral problems to begin with. Rather than learning how to read ‘dog’ and finding ways to communicate our wishes to our canine companions in language they can understand, we bully them into submitting to our will through the use of painful and cruel devices and methods like shock/prong collars, alpha rolls, etc. All designed to break their spirit and make them comply when in fact all it does is create mistrust of humans and resulting fear-based aggression.

If you want credible, current information about doggy psychology from one of the best-known veterinary canine behaviorists, the late Dr. Sophia Yin, follow the link Donna provided.

Another excellent resource to check out is another well-known veterinary behaviorist Dr. Ian Dunbar, who has a series of free YouTube videos on dog/puppy behavior/training: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLE69C623A53AFE753


Apr 05, 2015
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alpha dog
by: Wendy

Yes I am familiar with what you're saying and am not a Cesar fan actually. What I DO not subscribe to are people putting their dogs at the same importance as their child.

At 1 1/2 yrs old I have a feeling early training didn't happen as it should have. I own and have owned several afghan hounds. Although sight hounds and not a LGD, they are independent thinkers and I presume have a lot of similar behavioral traits as pyrs.

The Afghan hound responds best to kindness, respect and understanding. We had a food dominance issue early on and addressed it with teaching the dog to trust and not punish the growl, but teach the dog it was not necessary.

The dog KNOWS who is boss but it is not because of a heavy hand or punishment, it is mutual respect.

Aug 09, 2016
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Aggressive
by: Vicki P. Nesom

I have been a Pyr owner, breeder and farmer who depended on my field dogs, since 1980. This would alarm me slightly, on two levels. First, a 1 & 1/2 year old male is not grown until 2 with everything locked in by 3. He was testing his boundaries and simultaneously correcting his young human (generally considered as a litter mate and more or less equal in the pecking order).

Being a believer in the Pack Leader Theory, I would have growled loudly at him, and probably shown my teeth, to let him know he is under my child and not allowed to correct him. I would also do a lot of explaining to my child as a well trained child would have immediately looked at the the dog and away, to show no threatening intentions. This probably would have diffused it all.

My second concern, if you did not breed this pup or are at least knowledgeable of the lines, is that signs on inbreeding (especially aggression) show up sometime between 1 and 2 years old. They will trend and only get worse, and not be open for Pack Leader correction....they challenge everybody. These dogs get put down if they show up at the Nesoms Ark. Pyrs are too strong to put up with aggression or bad judgement. Ever.

Aug 10, 2016
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Aggression
by: Donna

Never growl back at the dog. You'll most certainly be at risk of being bitten in the face.

You need to work towards a mutual respect and trust from the beginning. Without that, it's not a good start in life.

I would recommend you bring in a positive-reinforcement trainer to show you how to manage your dog.

This work should have been well started by the breeder and the mother of the pups in the first crucial 8 weeks for the development of bite inhibition, being well-socialized and handled by many many different people.

The next 5 weeks are as crucial. You would have worked with the dog on this, too. The dog needs to be worked with continually. However, those first 13 weeks are critical to your dog becoming a good canine citizen.

Feb 08, 2017
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Justice to a noble breed
by: Anonymous

Consider a Great Pyrenees from outside the states. I did,they have been inbred to many times here, you will find they are much much more intelligent,gentle and responsive. here in America everyone of them I have seen except for the ones not from here all have some sort of mental disorder if you do find one that isn't then the bloodlines hasn't been in the states for very long I know this may upset a lot of breeders but so be it, I love this breed and most breeders are not doing right by them...

Nov 08, 2017
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Same problem here
by: Anonymous

What was the outcome since this post was dated 2015?I have a 3 year old pyr and a 5 year old son. No problems until recently with the dog coming at my son, food and bone. It took me a sec to understand why the dog was upset, my son was not intentionally aggravating the dog, but nonetheless our dog thought otherwise. I laid the law down with the dog both times, and out pyr seemed to understand. Most of the time the pyr is great with him, and even plays fetch. I'm wondering if getting him fixed would help calm the situation.

Nov 09, 2017
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Aggression
by: Donna

What do you mean the dog went at your son, food and bone?

The dog tried to take food from your son?

If you are having problems, it's best to bring in a positive-reinforcement trainer to help you learn how to manage any aggressive behaviour.

Attempting to help someone online without seeing what is going on is impossible. There are different variables. A trainer needs to see it first hand.

Dec 30, 2017
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Glad to have found this page
by: Lesterline

We have 2 Pyrs, a 6 yr old female and a 2.5 year old male. The female has always been a crazy barker but I have implicit trust in her. The male came from working stock at 9 weeks old and was a complete wonder dog, getting his CGC at only 8 months. We just KNEW He was therapy dog material. At 11 months old he started attacking or "over guarding" our very gentle Golden retriever. We got our Pyr neutered at 13 months hoping this would help. It didn’t make a difference at all. I finally had to send my beautiful loving Golden next door to live w my son so he wouldn’t get his muzzle torn up anymore than it already was. It makes me so sad to think about how this gentle loving dog grew up to be unpredictable as he is now. We tried adaptil collars, redirecting, kennel time and working with a trainer. Please someone with experience tell me this will change as he ages or at least tell me how you have successfully countered this behavior. Upsets me that on fbk forums you really don’t get much support or hear anything like this. Makes you feel like there is only perfect Pyrs or really bad Pyrs. Where are the good ones with just a few minor quirks?!?

Jan 01, 2018
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Attacking other dog
by: Donna

There are all sorts of dogs of any breed with behaviourial issues of different levels. It's not the fault of the dog that they end up like they are.

If the dog comes from an unethical breeder (pet store, backyard breeder, farmer) where they don't get the crucial socialization and handling by many many different people in the first 8 weeks of puppyhood followed by the same from their new people, issues will occur as they mature. They also need their littermates and mothers in that first 8 weeks to learn how to get along with other dogs. An unethical breeder also doesn't breed for sound temperament or health. Sometimes, they are breeding a mix of white dogs that are a combination of Pyr/Maremma/Akbash and or Kuvasz. This can lead to wires crossing and aggression inevitably occurs. It can be a combination of these things in their early lives that can set them up for failure.

It sounds like your dog is dog reactive. This does not usually improve, unfortunately. This is unfortunate since you have a female and they were together since he was a puppy.

When walking him on leash and he reacts to other dogs, this can be managed. You need to see the other dog before he does, cross the street and redirect him with treats as he pays attention to you. And, keep this up until the other dog passes.

It sounds like you have done everything right in bringing a positive-reinforcement trainer in. I wish I had better news for you. He'll need to be an only dog. There are many like that in rescue.

Jan 11, 2018
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4 year old adopted Pry growling a strangers
by: Lynda

HELP. What do I need to do please !!! I am a strong Alpha but I’m at a loss because there’s no rhyme or reason that I can see on why he does this. I tell my friends not to approach him, let hi. Come to them. He will come up to the guest in a very friendly way, then sometimes he growls and other times he doesn’t. Someone please help me, he’s a very sweet boy and I want to help him.

Jan 12, 2018
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Aggression
by: Donna

I don't know what you mean by you being 'alpha'. You should be working with your dog as if in a dance and you are leading. You must never force a dog to do anything he doesn't want to do.

Growling is good. If you stop the growling, he goes for the bite. He isn't telling you he isn't comfortable with those people at whom he is growling. Listen to him.

That said, there isn't much that can be done with this behavior but do bring in a vet behaviourist and/or a positive-reinforcement trainer to assess your dog.

There are issues at play here right from poor genetics to lack of that crucial socialization/handling in his first 8 weeks of puppyhood by the breeder to have been continued by you, of course. You should also talk to the breeder. They can advise you.

Jan 22, 2018
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Agressivenpyr
by: Tina

I have a neutered pyr who will be 2 onnApril 1st. He is the most affectionate dog I have ever had and he is our family dog.

Two days ago he was chewing on a fresh marrow bone near the tv. My husband sat on the ottoman to put in a dvd, then he petted Samson’s head. Samson curled his lips ( my husband missed this sign!) And immediately the fog turned his head and bit my husbands thumb! And would not let go. Thankfully my husband was not seriously hurt, but this behavior is unacceptable.

What do I do? This is the second time he has protected a bone. The first one was last year when he found some deer bones in the field. He has never done this with any other marrow bones but they have all been previously frozen. Could that be the difference?
Samson has been through training and I still work with him. The only other thing that bothers me is that he will not come when called off leash outside.

Jan 23, 2018
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Resource Guarding
by: Donna

Reconsider feeding marrow bones to a dog. They are hard and will break his teeth.

Next, you need to work with your dog on this resource guarding. He's not aggressive but being protective of his bone. You need to work with him on this behaviour. I suspect you wouldn't want him to take your food.

He needs to learn that if you take something of value away, he'll get it back. You're no threat. This bone is of high value. You need to trade off with him something of higher value.

Bring in a positive-reinforcement trainer to help you learn how to manage this.

Here is an article for information:

https://www.dogstardaily.com/training/guarding-valued-objects

Jan 23, 2018
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Off-leash
by: Donna

Do some research on the Pyr.

They were 'invented' by man to watch over livestock without human intervention (except to feed, groom and care for the dog). This means they are independent thinkers. They are not obedience dogs.

They must be walked on leash and have a fully-fenced secure yard in which to hang out.

They only do something you ask if it's in their best interest.

Work with your dog and only use positive-reinforcement training. Reward for good behaviour, redirect for unwanted behaviour.

Here is a place for good information on the Pyr.

http://www.great-pyrenees-club-of-southern-ontario.com/Great-Pyrenees.html

Jan 23, 2018
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Re: responses to my post
by: Tina

Thank you both so very much. I read completely the site info on Pyrs. It was so helpful. I did not choose this dog, my daughter with her kind heart bought him for me when my Hovawart died after 16 years. I have gone back and forth about keeping him.

We have 15 acres but live on a state highway, so I cannot ever let him off leash. He has gotten out a couple of times and oh boy! Is he happy! But, he crosses the road. So very dangerous.

Do you all think he would be better off in a home where people are around all the time? I have to work and my husband works so he is in his kennel when we are gone. I do have a wonderful dog walker, so he does get exercise even when I am not home.
I’m just torn.

Jan 24, 2018
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To keep or not to keep
by: Donna

This is the problem when people gift people with pets. It's never a good idea. But, you have him now and obviously love him.

You do have a dog walker so that's great. If you walk him when you get home and before you leave for work, that will be plenty for him.

Do try to fence some of your yard so he can run and play. They do need off-leash time. Try to get at least a 50x100 area fenced area of secure fencing (no invisible fencing or tie outs). Six feet should do it. Do not leave him out when you are not there, however.

People do not need to be around in the day. Dogs tend to sleep in the day (Pyrs are nocturnal by nature but get into the human routine with time)providing they do get enough exercise.

As long as you love him, look after him including exercise, grooming regularly and keeping his nails trimmed including the dew claws, and he's being fed and watered, and you couldn't really bear to part with him, there is no reason to let him go.

I hope this helps.

Jan 29, 2018
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Aggressive w/out food involved
by: Anonymous

My Pyrenees, Sonny, turned 2 in October. We got him as a puppy. He does have food aggression, we have taught our kids to just leave him alone while he is eating. However, 2 nights ago, I was helping my 8 year old daughter with something on the computer, Sonny was sitting next to us both and out of nowhere, he bit my daughter in the face (Lip/chin area). I too, am hesitant as what to do next. There was no food involved at all. My daughter wasn't even paying any attention to him... I feel like I have lost all trust in him. He is un-neutered, I have read on this post that neutering didn't change anything. Any advice, since there was NO food/bones involved.
Thanks in advance
Stepheni

Jan 29, 2018
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Aggression
by: Donna

This is very sad, Stepheni.

If you got him from a repubtable/ethical breeder, the contract will state that should anything like this happen, you need to return him.

There is nothing that can be done to reverse this behaviour. He now has a bite history and he is a danger to your family with this unpredictable behaviour. And, a danger to anyone else.

Please do not attempt to rehome him as this behaviour will only escalate wherever he would go. He may be abused for this and this would not be fair to him. This behaviour is not his fault but rather the breeding (poor genetics) and/or the lack of socialization and training by the breeder when he was a pup. This is crucial and must be done by many many different people. Without it, what is happening with your dog is what happens as they mature.

I'm so sorry you're going through this.

Please read this:

http://www.drjensdogblog.com/harsh-truths-and-difficult-choices-the-reality-of-behavioral-euthanasia/

Feb 10, 2018
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aggression in Great Pyrenees
by: Anonymous

We have always had Great Pyrenees here on the farm as they are good for predator control and we have bear, wolves, etc. They have always been loveable big teddy bears until this last dog. We got him one year ago as a puppy. Around nine months old he started showing aggression when he was brushed. He would growl. Once he picked up a tool from my shop floor and walked outside. When I tried taking it away from him he attacked me very aggressively. He was scolded and backed away.99% of the time he is super friendly playing in the yard with us and our grandchildren, but then we have another bout of aggressive from him. The final straw was recently when my wife was brushing him and trying to remove burrs from his coat. He attacked her and had her pinned up against a wall. When I stepped in between them he went around me and attacked her again snapping toward her face. He was in our porch area when this happened so I ordered him outside. He stood his ground growling at both of us. I picked up a chair to keep between him and me and forced him outside. He went out but turned back and growled at us. My wife was crying and said she will never have anything ever to do with that dog again. We have since had him put down, as rehoming wasn't an option. It was a sad day for us as we loved him so much, but we couldn't trust him anymore, fearing that his next attack may be on one of our grandchildren.

Feb 11, 2018
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Aggressive of my bedroom
by: Anonymous

Our 2 yr old pyr started guarding my bedroom about 2 weeks ago. He will growl, bark, and even snap if anyone comes to close to the door. He never did this before. My husband and I are allowed in, no problem, but my kids are not. If my kids are in the room before he comes in, he guards them from others. It appears he is protecting the bed itself. Other than the normal bone issue, the dog is fine with kids everywhere else. My sister visited, and that actually seems to be when it started. All sorts of people were here at Christmas and we had no issues, including my sister. I woke up last night at 2 am with my 9 yr old son screaming bloody murder in the hall. He sleep walks. Dog woke him up and scared him at my door. I don't think anything happened, but we have to figure this out. I have 4 kids, 2 of which are 3 yr old twins. They come to my room at night. If I close my door, the dog seems to be way more aggressive. He will lunge at the door if someone tries to open it. If I close him out of the room, he lays in front of the door in the hall and guards. If I leave it open, the growling and barking wake me up. He doesn't lunge or move, just lays still as long as the door is open. I have even put lights down the hall so he can see who is approaching. Doesn't make a difference. We got him from a rescue when he was 9 months. He was taken from an abusive farm situation and bounced thru a pound and 2 shelters first. I do not know all the specifics. Is this the new him, or just a phase? While he has snapped at the kids in other situations, my kids try to pet him when he growls. It is to be expected. He has never broken skin, and he seems to pout and feel sorry for himself after he snaps at kids. He is kind of pitiful looking. I know he means no harm. I can train and work with the kids and the dog on normal stuff, like stay away is he has a bone, but I am stumped on the bedroom issue.

Feb 11, 2018
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Aggression
by: Donna

Don't underestimate him.

Rule number one for everyone. If he growls, leave him alone. He is trying to tell you to leave him alone. Without the growl, he'll go for the bite.

This is not a phase. This behaviour usually escalates.

There is a reason he was bounced around and I suspect this is why.

I would recommend you talk to a vet behaviourist and/or bring in a positive-reinforcement trainer to assess him.

Do not put your family in danger. Do not give him away since this behaviour will only escalate anywhere else and you put him at risk of being abused.

Mar 21, 2018
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Pyrenees mix
by: Amanda.M

I have an 18 month old pyr/husky mix. She is wonderful with us our kids and any other visiting adults and kids. We had an issue with the neighbors french bulldog, she mauled it! She has got ahold of this dog like 4 times. In her defense of that the bulldog was very yappy and would go onto our property and try and bite my 14 and 12 year old boys after getting off the school bus.We put her on a cord after the 1st mauling, she broke several cords to get to this dog. We didn't know the bulldog was trying to bite my boys until later when I saw it for myself. I got to where if my dog saw or heard the other dog bark she was ready to tear into it. The neighbors got rid of their dogs(they constantly get pets and get rid of them).Even after them getting rid of their dogs we have kept Rosa on a cord. A couple weeks ago my husband against my wishes let her off the cord, she was so happy and played and ran in our yard but didn't leave. The next morning she went to anot her neighbors house and killed their daschound. We are now going to court over this. My husband wants our dog gone or put down. I love her and want to keep her, looking for advice please help. She has not been spayed I'm not sure if it would make a difference and was looking into a trainer also.

Mar 22, 2018
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Killed another dog
by: Donna

First, never tie Pyrs up. You need a secure 6 ft fully-fenced yard. No invisible fencing either. Cords, as you know, break and doesn't allow a dog to watch over their full territory. Because of this, it can lead to aggression.

Unfortunately, you're between a rock and a hard place by the sounds of it. What happens in court will determine what happens to your dog.

If you are lucky in court, you will need to bring in a positive-reinforcement trainer to show you how to manage your dog. You will, I suspect, need to muzzle him anytime he is outside.

And, get your yard well-fenced.

The chances of him killing another dog are inevitable.

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