What is my Lucy mixed with?

by kim
(sioux city, IA)


I don't see this much coloring on other photos of great pry. Is she mixed? I just adopted her at Christmas. I think she rescued me as much as I rescued her. She is 3 and double dewlawed.

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Mar 26, 2016
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Mix?
by: Donna

She doesn't look to be a mix. She has double-dews so she is pretty much a full Pyr.

She is beautiful.

She has what we call badger markings. You can read more about Pyrs here:

http://www.great-pyrenees-club-of-southern-ontario.com/Great-Pyrenees.html

I'll guess and say you have done your research on this breed but here it is in an abridged version:

NEVER use it as punishment. Never punish dogs. Always use positive-reinforcement training.

I know you have done your research but I'll send you this, anyways:

In short, here are some of the things to be expected from a Pyr:

They are beautiful dogs with great temperaments given the right breeding, socialization, care including diet and training. Raw is the preferred food for these dogs.

They require a good weekly grooming to keep them mat free and their skin healthy (hence, pain free from the pulling of mats as they move), and cutting their nails including their dew claws every couple of weeks to a month. They molt twice a year and all year round so your vacuum stays full.

NEVER shave a Pyr. Their double coats keep them cool in summer and warm in winter. If you don't like grooming, take your dog to a master groomer.

Their instinct it to wander. Therefore, they require at least a 6-foot secure fence in a large yard in which they can play, run and watch over. No tie outs for these guys. It can lead to aggression since they cannot fully watch over their territory. If they are out all day, as they usually prefer, they need shelter from the elements.

They bark more than most dogs and neighbours do complain. That is a common reason for people surrendering their Pyrs (they didn't do their research). Their bark is what deters predators and it is instinct to them. That and marking their territory. To take away their bark is to take away who they are. The barking can be managed but it takes time, patience and consistency with positive-reinforcement training. If you don't like barking, they are not the dog for you.

They dig holes in your garden to stay cool in summer.

They require a lot of socialization as pups onward with people and other dogs. They also require positive-reinforcement training (a trainer who shows you how to work with a clicker). Pyrs, nor any dogs, take kindly to any kind of punishment. It will lead to aggression. Dr. Sophia Yin is a great website resource.

It's important to work with the dogs as if in a dance and you are leading. Rewards for good behaviour and redirect for unwanted behaviour. It's up to you to make them a good canine citizen. When engaging a trainer, ensure they use positive-reinforcement training and show you how to manage your dog. Never send a dog away for training. You are the one working with the dog, not a trainer.

To train a Pyr is not like training some other dogs. They are not eager-to-please and just as soon walk away from you than do as you say. They were bred by man to be used as guardian livestock dogs because they do not require human intervention to tell them how to do their job. Lots of patience, consistency and time is required to work with them. If you want an obedient dog, this is not the dog for you.

They require regular walks, of course, so they get out and see the world. They must be leashed because they will wander. Again, because they are so good at wandering they have been used to wander with sheep as they watch over them. It's suggested to use a front lead harness which will cut down on any damage to the spine should the dog pull although, with a little work from puppyhood, they should be good on a leash.

There are those in need of a home because someone didn't realize they would get so big, bark so much, leave so much hair in the house, wander, and require work. Or, they ended up going to a backyard breeder or farmer and ended up with a dog who was aggressive because of bad breeding. Or, they forgot they travel a lot or a baby is on the way and they just don't want the dog, anymore.

It is very important to do your research on any breed before deciding if they are a good match for your family. Please start here:

http://www.great-pyrenees-club-of-southern-ontario.com/Great-Pyrenees.html

Regarding dogs and children. We never want to see these dogs fail so it's important that children learn how to behave with dogs and that parents never leave their children alone with a dog. Here is a link on that subject:

http://www.great-pyrenees-club-of-southern-ontario.com/bestdogsforchildren.html

Enjoy her!

Mar 27, 2016
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Looks like a pure breed
by: Anonymous

Your Lucy sure looks like a pure breed Pyrenees to me! One sure way to find out is get a DNA purebreds test, simple swab the inside of her mouth send it in and you will know for sure. I have done it and it is very accurate. Because you simply don't have her line history she can not be pedagreed but if your not showing her that don't matter. But it is nice to know you have a pure breed dog. You all ready know you have a pure gem.

Mar 27, 2016
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Purebred?
by: Donna

Your dog is not purebred although she is full Pyr.

The definition for a purebred is:

Purebred dogs are pedigreed members of modern breeds. These dogs may be registered with breed club. The breed clubs may be an open stud book or a closed stud book, the term can be interpreted to either. Usually the breed club is also associated with a kennel club (AKC, UKC, CKC etc.).

So, if she has no papers stating she is registered with a kennel club, she is not purebred. It's no big deal since she is very obviously a full Pyr. Again, gorgeous girl.

Mar 29, 2016
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Lucy's tattoo
by: Kim

Another question. Lucy has a tattoo in her right groin area. It was discovered by the vet when she was to be spayed as the rescue requires. They told me it ment she was already syaped. She then had a period and is now spayed. The tattoo is 3 parallel one inch lines about the width of match sticks in blue/green ink. Any idea what they mean? Thank you!

Mar 30, 2016
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Markings
by: Donna

I spoke with a breeder. She could only think that it might be a 111 but chances are it's not. Perhaps the rescue put that on her. Dogs can be tattooed on their groins or ears when they are registered. However, this 111 doesn't seem to indicate anything.

Vets don't mark dogs, usually, when they have been spayed. You actually have to find the scarring to determine that or have the vet files. Thank you for having her spayed.

Just know that you have a beautiful Pyr. Enjoy her!

Mar 30, 2016
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Thank you Donna
by: Kim

Thank you so much for your help Donna. It has answered so many questions for me!! I can laugh at her stubborness (independence) now instead of taking it personally:) She is such a cuddler and I am fortunate enough to live right by a large dog park she just loves!! I had never heard of the pry breed but am absolutely in love with Lucy and her breed!!! Am keeping Zoe in my prayers to find her home too:)

Mar 30, 2016
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Your dog is a pure breed
by: Ed A from NJ

Once again the confusion! Your dog is a pure breed! It does not have a pedagree, a pedagree is a dog with papers from a kennel club a purepreed is a dog ofthe same liniage. Kennel clubs can not say a breed is not pure because it does not have club papers they can only say it does not have a pedagree. I checked this by also calling the AKC! This is correct.

Mar 31, 2016
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Purebred / Pedigree
by: Donna

AKC has a different definition from Canadian Kennel Club.

The CKC is pretty clear about purebreds. You are correct, Ed. The AKC says they only have to be from parents of the same lineage. I would think you would need to prove that to register them with AKC. It's interesting that they have a definition for a 'purebred alternative'.

So many people think they have a Pyr but, in fact, it is a Maremma, Akbash, Kuvasz, a big white fluffy or a mix thereof.

If people want Pyrs, it's important to stay true to the breed.

Here is what I found on the respective websites, Ed.

Look up By-laws for Canadian Kennel Club. These are the definitions for pedigree and purebred.

"pedigree" means a genealogical table showing the ancestral line of descent of a registered dog;

"purebred dog" means a dog registered, or eligible for registration with The Canadian Kennel Club;

American Kennel Club

Pedigree: The written record of a dog's genealogy of three generations or more.

Purebred: A dog whose sire and dam belong to the same breed and who are themselves of unmixed descent since recognition of the breed.

Purebred Alternative Listing/Indefinite Listing Privilege (PAL/ILP

A number assigned to a dog by the AKC that allows a dog belonging to one of the AKC-recognized breeds (registerable breed or Miscellaneous breeds), that could not or was not registered (for whatever reason), to participate in some performance events. The dog must be spayed or neutered, and it cannot compete in conformation events.

Mar 31, 2016
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On more thing
by: Ed A from NJ

I see the different Clubs have different standards and even define words differently. However I used the definitions as they are in wikapedia and the dictionary, These are the the true and distinct means of said words. But the Truth is in this world there is a very sure fire way to know if your dog is pure or not. DNA is deadly accurate when it comes to pure breed, while they are still collecting samples to more clearly identify mixs DNA is very clear for pure lineage breeds, So for around $69.00 you can have better proof then even club papers. When researching this I found a site www.mypurebreedpuppy.com. I found out if you own a male and female AKC or CKC dog all you need do is let them know you have a litter and they will register it, just like that. So if your dog was had by the next store mix breed they can still be registered! Also the AKC still issues papers to known puppy mills because they have a few AKC dogs and again do not check to be shore where the puppies are coming from. This breaks my heart! This is why I say papers are not enough the only way is due diligence by the adopter or buyer. The simple truth is we need to have national laws to shut down puppy mills heavy fines to stop unregistered breeders and laws to stop farm puppy breeding. This is coming from someone who think we have lost far to many personal freedoms already but here innocent lives are at stake and and "neuter your pet" just won't do it alone anymore! Educating the public to the horrors these people create is now job one for those who love and honor these noble creatures.

Mar 31, 2016
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Lone Lupo
by: Ed A from NJ

By the way DNA speaking the Great Pyrenees is the only Lupomossoloid dog in every breed you mentioned all the rest are mossoliods so the Pyrenees DNA is very distinct which makes for great separation from the other breeds.

Mar 31, 2016
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Purebred
by: Donna

Yes, it's probably, sadly true, Ed. That's why it's important to go to reputable/ethical breeders when you want a pup.

They'll talk about the lineage of the dog, genetics, do their research to improve the breed and make sure you are a good fit for a dog. They'll ensure you spay/neuter at the right time so you don't go breed the dog 'accidentally'. They'll educate you about the breed, care and feeding if you haven't already done your research.

As for puppy mills, in Canada we're working hard to educate people and make the animal welfare laws stronger. I know there are probably many groups in the USA working towards stronger animal welfare laws if you're interested in helping out.

No, spayer/neuter was never meant to be the only answer to the issues of animal welfare but it's a step in the right direction. Without it, things would be even worse than they are right now.

Small steps. Perhaps, one day, with people to be the voices for animals and make people realize they are sentient beings, pets mills will come to an end. One day. We have to keep working towards it.

In Ottawa, we are working on banning the sale of pets in pet stores. They are hearing us. Small steps. It doesn't address the issue of online pets but, again, strengthening animal welfare laws is another step in the right direction, Ed.

Apr 01, 2016
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Arguing from the same side
by: New pyre fan

I read this site all the time. I am getting ready to get my first great Pyrenees and am on the fence as to buy or rescue. I do want a Pyrenees.

Any way I have picked up a lot of great information from this site and it seems like both Donna and Ed are very good contributors with a vast knowledge of the breed, dogs and training. I find it somewhat funny that they don't seem to realize they are both on the same side of the true issues. Both very passionate about rescue, animal care and helping people to understand the needs of these dogs. I was wondering if they stop to read how much they both care.I never seen such a lively debate from two people on the same side of an issue.

Apr 03, 2016
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Same side
by: Donna

Yes, I am aware we are both on the same side.

I'm glad people follow these questions and comments. I'm a believer that education is the only way to ensuring people are sure the Pyr is the right dog for them. It's not the breed for most people as I have discovered from watching Pyrs come into rescue. The biggest issue being, and I've said this before, people did not do their research.

Ed and I want the best for these dogs and for any breed, I suspect.

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